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Post by Jonathon Doyle on Jul 31, 2010 14:35:22 GMT -5
I was going to ask a question about this, then found Michael Hawkin's post from the Jhana support group and brought it over here, so here it is, anyone would like to add to this? Here is a detailed description of an ideal practice strategy: www.greatwesternvehicle.org/practiceregimen.htmIn my own words, I would say that it is of paramount importance to arrive at a moment of profound commitment and dedication... such that one is truly ready to consciously sculpt her or his life around a rigorous and skillful meditation practice (as described by Jeffrey at the above link). Additionally, there needs to be room for dhamma study -- to immerse oneself in the "literature of gnosis," which is to say, the teachings and life stories of ecstatic contemplatives from multiple religious and spiritual traditions. The canonical text that, from our experience, carries the most direct and accurate teaching of an ecstatic contemplative existence comes from the Pali Canon, and has been coined by us as the Phala Nikaya (Discourses on Attainment): www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/phalanikaya.htmWhile we encourage contemplatives to read all available discourses (Suttas) given by the Buddha and his arahant followers (i.e., the entire Sutta Pitaka), one should at least read the Phala Nikaya... and when finished, start over again, and again, and again. There really is no better set of teachings than these for the purpose of developing, sustaining and attaining through the ecstatic than these teachings of the Buddha. So, I meditate from an hour to 1.5 hours early in the morning (before sunrise), another one to two hours at midday, and then long enough just before bed to become established in late third jhana... so that I may enter the sleep domains from a place of deep absorption. While I am not as accomplished as others at navigating the non-material planes while the body sleeps, I am beginning to enjoy more regularity with lucidity. I attribute this growing capacity to the many hours spent in absorption since the first nimittas arose in the mid-90's. If one should arrive at a commitment to a rigorous and skillful meditation practice, one is often confronted with "interesting" dynamics from friends and loved ones, who are likely to present resistance to the fact that one is now devoting more time and energy to meditation and dhamma study. This is natural, as the contemplative life is alien to "mainstream" existence, and is often experienced as a threat by others. My way of dealing with this phenomenon was to type out a detailed daily itinerary and post it on the refrigerator. I was sure to template-in time spent with my wife, for instance, so that she did not feel abandoned at the expense of my practice. Interestingly, it quickly became apparent that I had more time and energy for everyone and everything, once I had built my life around a contemplative practice. Life became more simple and clear, so that priorities automatically aligned with what matters most. With time, resistance from others evaporated... and now, five years after becoming a jhana yogi, I'm in a place where those who were once threatened by the changes they saw in me... are now turning to me for help in getting established in a practice of their own. Bottom line is, there is nothing more important, fulfilling or mutually beneficial than entering and sustaining meditative absorption (samadhi), as it is constant and repeated immersion in meditative absorption that erodes and gradually eliminates hindrances to Nibanna in this very lifetime. Once I realized this at the core of my being, I had no choice but to devote myself to the holy life. With love, Michael
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Post by jhananda on Jul 31, 2010 15:35:49 GMT -5
I could not have described the necessary attitude for traversing the path of enlightenment better than Michael Hawkins did above.
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Post by Michael Hawkins on Aug 1, 2010 9:30:14 GMT -5
Thanks, Jonathon and Jeffrey, for the post and kind comment. It will be interesting to see what others say about their practices.
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Post by Jonathon Doyle on Aug 8, 2010 11:47:01 GMT -5
Is there any particular order of reading the Phala Nikaya that you recommend? Could you offer an approach, or target for reading (given that there is alot of material), and something about Siddhartha Gautama's style and manner of teaching? (For those who may be less familiar with the suttas). Thx guys, been enjoying the re-read...
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Post by jhananda on Aug 8, 2010 15:20:49 GMT -5
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Post by Linda on Aug 11, 2010 14:50:47 GMT -5
Jeffrey, in your opinion, is mystical experience, or the experience of the major mystics, the foundation of all of civilization?
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Post by jhananda on Aug 11, 2010 16:47:21 GMT -5
Jeffrey, in your opinion, is mystical experience, or the experience of the major mystics, the foundation of all of civilization? Oh boy, Linda, that is a very pregnant question. I would have to answer, no. The origins of civilization are in rapateous greed, ignorance, delusion, doubt, gluttony, lust, abuse of power, etc. The enlightened mystics will always direct us back to our hunter-gatherer origins, because it is our natural position in the ecosystem. Being in our natural state means we are less anxious, less insecure and fearful. Death is natural for all creatures. The ecosystem manages itself very well. When a creature cannot function in balance in the ecosystem, then it falls pray to its natural predators. It is the predator who weeds out the week and stupid and keeps all species optimized at their maximum effectiveness, because the predator-pray relationship is naturally tight. Pray can keep ahead of its predator as long as it is functioning in its optimum capacity. When an organism falls below optimum, then the predator can catch up to it and consume it. Love to all, Jhananda
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Post by Linda on Aug 12, 2010 11:35:00 GMT -5
Very interesting Jeffrey, thankyou for your reply. Would the predator in this case be the ego? Do you mean falling below optimum is like being less than enlightened?
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Post by jhananda on Aug 12, 2010 14:56:47 GMT -5
In this case, Linda, I was not writing metaphorically, but, yes, when we fall pray to the ego, then we are less than optimum, and would fall pray to a predator, if we were a wild animal. It is actually the predator that keeps the creature always mindfully self-aware. When a creature is not mindfully self-aware, even for a moment, then a predator is likely to eat it. So, the predator functions in a sense like a guru, by keeping the game significant at all times. In nature there is not time to slack off, not even for an instant, or one is dead.
Love to all, Jhananda
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Post by Linda on Aug 13, 2010 12:14:37 GMT -5
Jeffrey, I'm afraid I'm going to forget what I even asked about, this is a very interesting perspective, and I would like to ask you more about what you mean, or what the implications of this idea are as a serious contemplative.
It seems a bit like the thing about wo/man being expelled from the 'garden of Eden', that we have never been able to find that 'union' again with nature as we evolved 'intellectually' - where the intellect is the most highly prized, and valued, 'procession' of 'civilization'. (Is this what you mean?)
That our 'animal' nature/instinct is our more 'natural' state of 'being' (verb), and that as contemplatives, it is in our interest to 'return' to a more, I dont know the word, 'fundamental'? (I dont want to say primitive) state of living in harmony with our eco-system?
I guess my original question about mystical experience as the 'foundation' of civilization, was meant in this 'animal' sense that we are speaking, that it was that 'state' of being from where 'civilization' emerged (the sense which you speak about 'civilization' is interesting, as that which has caused imbalance, alienating us from an 'optimal' state of being-in-the-world).
But I hadn't thought of it like you described, I was thinking more like TM's claim about how the 'unified field' is from where all 'life'/(civilization)/everything emerges.
Linda
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Post by jhananda on Aug 14, 2010 15:54:26 GMT -5
Hello Linda, it is a pleasure to receive another enquiry from you. I am really not interested in the doctrine of the various religions, so I will not give you a Buddhist perspective on the present thread of discussion. To me the world religions have strayed far from the origins of their belief system and really only represent falsehood with just enough truth in their doctrine to appear as a valid belief system. As proof of my premise, every religion has its breaks in logic for which the priesthood offers one stupid reply, “it is a paradox.”
There is no absolute good or bad, just lots of shades of gray in between. Through leading a rigorous self-aware contemplative life we dissolve those shades of gray away and become brilliant luminous beings. The brilliant luminous being is a metaphor for when we are out of the body in the spirit domain, and free of all sense of self, then we are just a radiant point of light.
To me the Garden of Eden is a metaphor for returning to the hunter-gatherer existence. At that point we become natural beings, like the rest of the creatures on earth. When we are hunter-gatherers we are natural beings. We do not spend a lot of time thinking and pondering, because we are pray or predator, and in either case thinking will not help us, we must only be aware and act when necessary. When we are hunter-gatherers, then we do not have to worry about over-population, because starvation and predation will control the human population.
No, as an anthropologist I find plenty of evidence to show at least some of the shaman of the hunter-gatherer societies were mystics. Thus, mysticism was not the foundation of civilization, but the foundation of the hunter-gatherer societies. It is the priesthood and the hegemony that are the foundation of civilization.
TM and their guru did not represent a genuinely enlightened view. It was just one more roadside attraction, another smoke and mirrors act. We cannot see through the many deceptions until we liberate ourselves through leading a rigorous self-aware contemplative life.
Best regards, Jhananda
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Post by Linda on Aug 15, 2010 9:46:15 GMT -5
Hello Linda, it is a pleasure to receive another enquiry from you. I am really not interested in the doctrine of the various religions, so I will not give you a Buddhist perspective on the present thread of discussion. To me the world religions have strayed far from the origins of their belief system and really only represent falsehood with just enough truth in their doctrine to appear as a valid belief system. As a mystic, are you concerned, or do you see how far the world is out of whack? What is the modern world? Postmodern world? What do these labels mean? What are they referring to? Do they simply point to how far removed we are from realizing our inner spirit? I like your comments about the necessity of returning to a hunter gather society as a part of realizing the goal of leading a contemplative life. Looking at how every age has had to 'redefine' the nature of religious doctrine in light changes of one kind or another, would you agree that it has always been a matter of going back to the original teachings (which must mean the original 'experience', even though we know that is not the case), and 're-interpreting' those teachings in light of discoveries about the natural world? Returning to those teachings, and looking at how imbalanced the world has become, could we say that each successive age has mis-interpreted the teachings (based on an inner lack of awareness), and thus become further and further removed from that original experience, replacing it with an endless multitude of gratifications to human vices? For example, in light of the three main water sheds of the 20th century, Evolutionism, Quantum Theory, and the Special Theory of Relativity, we could say that every institution has had to redefine the foundations of its structure. Religious doctrine being perhaps the most difficult to change. I often hear how religion is part of the very 'fabric' of our existence as 'beings' born into communities, societies, on levels of interconnectedness that intersect the entire global population? [/quote]As proof of my premise, every religion has its breaks in logic for which the priesthood offers one stupid reply, “it is a paradox.”[/quote] To 'grasp' or even begin to 'see' a paradox is quite interesting. We find paradoxes everywhere in logic, are they 'pointers' to the necessity of finding deeper means of 'understanding'? [/quote]There is no absolute good or bad, just lots of shades of gray in between. Through leading a rigorous self-aware contemplative life we dissolve those shades of gray away and become brilliant luminous beings. The brilliant luminous being is a metaphor for when we are out of the body in the spirit domain, and free of all sense of self, then we are just a radiant point of light.[/quote] That sounds like its going to be a few years away (for humanities concerns) ;D The state of the world becomes very sad when beginning to think about how few (or perhaps how many?) actually have the opportunity to pursue that level of awareness. When we ask, why are we born into suffering, that is not to say, that suffering is a natural state, in fact it is unnatural, we have created suffering, societies that create, foster, develop, value, and perpetuate suffering. What do you think Jeffrey? [/quote]To me the Garden of Eden is a metaphor for returning to the hunter-gatherer existence. At that point we become natural beings, like the rest of the creatures on earth. When we are hunter-gatherers we are natural beings. We do not spend a lot of time thinking and pondering, because we are pray or predator, and in either case thinking will not help us, we must only be aware and act when necessary. When we are hunter-gatherers, then we do not have to worry about over-population, because starvation and predation will control the human population.[/quote] But we still have the capacity for thought, thinking, and reflecting, consciously and unconsciously, do you mean that we would eliminate, or maybe just 'limit', this capacity? [/quote]No, as an anthropologist I find plenty of evidence to show at least some of the shaman of the hunter-gatherer societies were mystics. Thus, mysticism was not the foundation of civilization, but the foundation of the hunter-gatherer societies. [/quote] Do any of these societies exist today? Do you have a link? [/quote]It is the priesthood and the hegemony that are the foundation of civilization.[/quote] Then this is where the most radical changes must occur for there to be true, global changes that influence the largest number of human lives? How can those changes come about do you think? [/quote] We cannot see through the many deceptions until we liberate ourselves through leading a rigorous self-aware contemplative life.[/quote] I feel as though I am blind, yet I mediate 1-2 hours/day and while I always enter the first Jhana, and usually the 2nd, the 3rd is what I long for these days...thank-you Jeffrey.
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Post by Linda on Aug 15, 2010 9:51:49 GMT -5
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Post by Jonathon Doyle on Aug 15, 2010 10:41:20 GMT -5
Thanks for those links Jeffrey, been away just saw them now.
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Post by jhananda on Aug 15, 2010 18:10:04 GMT -5
Hello Linda, as I have already stated, for a mystic, this domain is hellish. It is an insane asylum, and the worst of the lot are the keepers. Corruption runs rampant, and society as we know it is rotten to the core. Now, this may sound paranoid, but I am just calling it as I see it.
An example of how insane western culture, is the drug war. It began in 1920 with prohibition. After 10 years of enriching gangsters this nation decided that prohibition did not work. However, not seeing that the drug war is the same as prohibition, in that it demonizes the peasants while enriching gangsters, should serve as sufficient evidence that western culture is insane.
Additionally, fifty percent of all of the people in prison in this country are there for petty drug-related crimes, and 90% of the homeless population, are homeless because they have a felony drug conviction, so they cannot get a decent job. That all sounds pretty insane to me. The pervasiveness of suffering, anxiety and stress is an example of how pervasive insanity is in human society.
Now, how insane are the major religions of the world? ALL mainstream religions have dumb down the contemplative philosophy of their progenitor, who was a mystic, and converted their philosophy into its lowest common denominator, which is just blind faith in a religious ideal. And, none of these religions value mystics.
Now, the thing to get about how corrupt ALL religions are, is to know that religion has ALWAYS been an arm of control for the hegemony. It is also important to point out that the largest contributor to religion is organized crime. Italian, Central and South American mobsters contribute more money to the Catholic Church than any one community of people. The same is true about the Asian mob contributes more money to Buddhism than any community of people. So, it stands to reason that religion is only what its funding wants it to be. I was brought up in organized crime, so I know it from the inside.
We can say the same thing about politics. Who has the money to fund politicians? Gangsters have that money. If gangsters make vast sums of money in their criminal activities, then doesn’t it stand to reason that they are going to fund politicians who are going to keep drugs, gambling and prostitution illegal? Of course they are, because crime is good for business.
Now, society could go on being as insane as they want to, but if they valued and supported mystics, then there would at least be an out for those who see through the insanity. However, humans are so insane that they are threatened by mystics, so they marginalize them in EVERY period of time. How do we know that nearly every mystic was marginalized? We need only examine the record of every mystic, to see nearly every one of them was marginalized.
Modernity and post modernism are just intellectual movements in society. They have nothing to do with mystics, because mystics always drop out of society, regardless of its movements.
As for your question, “how far removed we are from realizing our inner spirit?” At any time we are no more than a few years of rigorous self-examination, meditation and contemplation, from liberation from neuroses. But, how many do the work? In every period of time it is just a few who do the work.
Yes, I agree with you when you wrote we get liberated in part by “going back to the original teachings,” which is “'re-interpreting' those teachings in the light of,” arriving at the original 'experience', through leading a rigorous contemplative life.
Upon analysis of the origins and history of the major religions we can see each successive age has mis-interpreted the mystical teachings of their progenitor because an entrenched and pretentious priesthood arose, which was funded and directed by the hegemony, to mold and convert that religion into a vehicle of suppression, not liberation. Religion is only what it is funded to do. Who funds religion? For the answer, see above.
Regarding your comment about the major scientific movements in the last few hundred years: Evolutionism, Quantum Theory, Special Theory of Relativity. To this list I would also add the “European Enlightenment” which included Galileo’s astronomy, and findings in geology, and every other branch of science. So-called “Creation Science” is just an attempt of the religious hegemony to appropriate, subvert and obfuscate science. And, the Big-Bang theory, as well as New-Age interpretations of Quantum Theory are just examples of “Creation Science.”
Yes, we find paradoxes everywhere in logic. In part they are 'pointers' to the necessity of finding deeper means of 'understanding' our world. These paradoxes also point out that many of the beliefs that propel western culture are irrational. However, when we step out-of-body, then there are lots of paradoxes encountered. Paradox is just how the spirit world functions, because it is a collective unconscious, which is built upon the projection of all of its beings there. However, when we become enlightened we rise above the collective unconscious.
Yes, when we return to the natural state of being, we still have the capacity for thought, thinking, and reflecting, consciously; however, we are not unconsciously driven by these faculties. We have instead found the “off switch” for these faculties and use them only when necessary.
No, I have no link, or connection, or proof that genuine shaman exist today, or that there is even a living hunter-gatherer society, because most human societies have been corrupted by Western Society.
To change the world the most radical changes must occur right here with people manifesting bliss, joy and ecstasy in their everyday life by taking up a rigorous contemplative life. So, if one wants to change the world, then change yourself.
It is excellent to learn that you, Linda, have changed yourself by leading a rigorous contemplative life, by meditating 1-2 hours/day, which allows you to enter the first Jhana, and usually the 2nd. If every time you meditate you experience the first jhana, and you meditate at least once a day, then you are a stream winner (Sotapanna). If you experience the second jhana every day, when you meditate, then you are a once returner (Sakadágámi). If you experience the third jhana every day when you meditate, then you are a Non-return (Anágámi). If you experience the fourth jhana every day when you meditate, then you are an enlightened, saint (Arahatta). This is how the world can be changed by people being transformed by leading a rigorous contemplative life, as you are doing.
The average person experiences the first jhana after about 20 minutes of successful meditation. If one remains in meditation for another 20 minutes, then the average person experiences the second jhana. If one remains in meditation for another 20 minutes, then the average person experiences the third jhana. If one remains in meditation for another 20 minutes, then the average person experiences the fourth jhana.
This means it takes daily meditation sessions of about 1.5 hours to experience and maintain the fourth jhana. This does not seem like too much work to me to have the depth of bliss, joy, ecstasy, self-awareness and freedom from stress and anxiety every day of one’s life. If everyone on earth meditated this successfully the world would be changed and it would be heaven upon earth.
Love to all, Jhananda
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