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Post by roamer on Mar 8, 2010 20:28:15 GMT -5
I just realized today that I've been having a series of dreams over the last month with old respected knowledge figures in them. Last nights dream had both my father and my former boss (an engineering supervisor). In the dream my father was telling his ideas and of how to solve energy problems and my former engineering supervisor patiently listened and then explained rationaly and succinctly why this would not work. Then he looked at me in a perplexed face and asked what exactly it was that I was doing with my life, why was I not answering these questions, why was I letting others speak over me. I remained however a passive observer in the dream.
Right away the dream left me strongly with the impression of my old engineering supervisor and how much I respected his ability to rationaly and objectively tackle very difficult problems. I haven't been handling my life this way, I haven't been outwardly expressing what I really think of things. Somehow it seems like my father in the dream is symbolic of what is happening as a result of my passivity in the problem. Overall the dream connects with the problem I am having of letting friends and coworkers get a false idea of me and what I am about, because I just find it too hard to explain.
For example in work right now I have several coworkers who are like my father, they are so eager to talk and project their ideas outward that it makes it hard to express myself and my opinions. Given time constraints and personal energy limits, I have sort of given up the battle and let them think what they want to think so that my day goes easier and I can focus on my inner contemplative practice.
I guess I've just been sort of trying to avoid conflicts and people lately to pursue inner practice. I've felt that if I decide to begin expressing myself clearly that all sorts of outer conflicts will begin and I'll be brought down from the refuge I have in meditation. That paradox just feels so eerily familar to me and hard to express. It feels like there is this choice of trying to fight a potentially dangerous battle where the people I want to work with could potentially hurt me or alternatively finding a slightly different path and trajectory in life where I just keep my mouth shut and live a simple very humble contemplative life.
Part of me thinks the later option is a compromise of my soul, and another part of me thinks that trying to express and act on whatever little intellectual knowledge I do have is just a fools venture anyways.
Ok after typing that out it seems like maybe I'm not looking for an interpretation in this dream so much as just some perspectives on my current position in life. Anybody else feel like the've been in a similar dilema?
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Post by jhananda on Mar 8, 2010 20:51:42 GMT -5
Hello Roamer, the lack of motivation or volition to argue with others is just a phase. Let it evolve on its own. One day when you feel complete in your attainments you will most probably find it easier to respond than to remain quiet.
Best, Jhananda
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Post by roamer on Mar 8, 2010 21:26:14 GMT -5
Jhananda,
I believe that in general you are right about having no motivation to argue, but somehow it feels like I have crossed a line. If I don't express what I believe and why, people have a way of doing it for you. Here is a more concrete example of what I am talking about.
At work I try to quietly perform my job in as efficient as manner as possible and try not to engage in intellectual banter and ranking competitions. As a result my coworkers seemed to have ranked me as a "slow" one who doesn't know much about the turbines we are working on. Which is fine, except for the fact that they then try to undermine my position as a technician and discredit me through gossip. IMO they seem to want me out so another one of their friends can come on board. Given that we are small and lack managers with much technological knowledge defending ones job seems to boil done to who can argue the best.
The funny thing is I happen to have a mechanical engineering degree and some experience dealing with complex industrial equipment. You are right though I have little volition left for argueing the issue. I feel like what I do should speak well enough for wether I am a worthwhile employee.
So I think the lesson that is coming through to me is that if I engaged in intellectual arguement it would at its core be because of my own insecurity, similarly if I took the other fork of retreating from the situaion it would also be because of my own insecurity. So I'll just keep on keeping on and nurture the jhanas and try to stick to my own inner dharma with or without a job.
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Post by jhananda on Mar 10, 2010 21:39:17 GMT -5
Hello Roamer, to me most humans are as neurotic as their lap animals, so there is little to be gained in competing with them. Compete for what, insanity?
The work place is a classic place where neurotic people compete. They often stab each other in the back, and they are most often deeply threatened by those who are well trained, intelligent and skilled. So, compete for stupidity? Why bother!
On the other hand, if the boss is stupid then he might be influenced by the wagging tongue of the dimwits he employs. If you are let go in such a case, then count your blessings. Move on and find an employer who will value you for your skills and abilities.
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Post by roamer on Mar 10, 2010 23:14:51 GMT -5
Jhananda,
You are right about the silliness of competing for neortic behavior. Yet I admit there is this part of me that still is worried about others perceptions, even if I trust my own actions. I guess in part because our livilihood and material security often depend on those perceptions.
I'm meditating on my concerns over my own material well being though and am getting more insight. I don't think though that is the issue that is really bothering me. I just feel so wrong about being passive and withdrawn in life, even though it does nurture my meditation. This sounds arrogant and rude, but instead of humbly listening to coworkers trash talk and ignore several foundations of science and rational thought, I want to challenge whatever belief they have in their minds and see if they can't see things in a new light and then let them decide if the new view works better. This is actually what i began doing this week with mixed results.
This same line of passivity extends into my practice and life. I am sort of involved with a local sangha that has on the whole been good company and for the most part a pretty open minded group. I just haven't expressed my views as openly as I'd like.
So what I seem to be getting at is that i need to make certain to express my views and apply them fully in and out of practice.
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Post by Michael Hawkins on Mar 11, 2010 9:38:42 GMT -5
Hello Nick and Jeffrey,
Beginning with the dream (which you connect with waking reality in its general dynamics).
Dreams featuring elder authority figures of the same sex (boss and father) are pointing to the Elder Leader archetype, and are basically dealing with ego/body levels of transformation (as opposed to the deeper transpersonal changes associated with opposite-sex dream imagery): issues of authority, rules, laws, structure, career, social standing, etc. We contemplatives seem to have an automatic repulsion for blind adherence to the System, along with its neurosis-causing effects. In other words, the contemplative life does not seem to jibe with something that is so overwhelmingly concerned with how things appear on the surface. On the other hand, contemplatives ARE concerned with inner structure, which is why you're receiving an insight that suggests you challenge your coworkers' motivating beliefs, since this is what you are doing in your own process.
So, I see you in the midst of a classic coming-of-age cycle wherein you are having to discern which authority structure you are able to submit to. Is it the competitive one at work, or is it the contemplative one more associated with contemplative practice? It seems that this is a no-brainer, in your case, since batting your head up against a bunch of yahoos who don't have a tendency toward inner reflection is totally unrewarding to your set of ideals. Jeffrey is right on about this. So, if you have to make a livelihood in that atmosphere, you'll have to do so while remaining true to your contemplative values -- and if these values are irrevocably opposed by the status quo at work, you will end up having to move on.
This may sound harsh, but it's basically about stripping away those things that divert you away from what is true and meaningful (i.e., contemplative attainment and its fruits), while orienting you in the world in such a way that you will not end up dying of starvation on some street corner. Coming to accept one's basic role as an ecstatic contemplative necessarily involves making some choices that end up rejecting "normal" (i.e., neurotic) values. This is called LIBERATION.
And, it may take a while for complete acceptance to sink in. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other, my dear friend -- you are doing really well.
Love always,
Michael
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Post by Michael Hawkins on Mar 11, 2010 16:44:45 GMT -5
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Post by roamer on Mar 11, 2010 21:57:04 GMT -5
Dear Micheal,
Framing and intepreting that dream in the archetype context really seems to help me understand the sort of underlying pyschic forces in a broader way than my own analysis would do, thanks!
The other thing that you hit right on the nail was that accepting takes a while. On many levels I have accepted that I am self reflective and contemplative, but apparently on other levels I'm still wrestling with unresolved subconscious undercurrents, which when you consider the amount of conditioning we recieve from archetypal structures it seems like this is to be expected.
I also am understanding my confusion about passivity and activity in life. A great deal of the meditative practice I'm engaged in is about submitting. For the last few years this part of my practice has carried over to my outer life, and sometimes I just let myself get totally run over by people. I actually think this was part of the whole process and in my case was quite needed so that I could gain a sort of remote distance to understand the effects my actions have in interacting with people. Now though I feel called to engage the values my practice has taught me outwardly.
Looking back though on just the short part of the journey I've been through I have really come to realize that inner spiritual growth can be a difficult process. I'm grateful for all the help I have found here.
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Post by Michael Hawkins on Mar 12, 2010 0:39:40 GMT -5
Truth is, Nick, I've benefited greatly over the years from having come into the archetypal perspective. It puts me in touch with larger cycles, as well as expressions of myself reflected in the world "out there." When we use this language in looking at dreams, everything comes together in a single Intelligence that operates along discernible and illuminating lines. This is why I work with symbol systems that cross-fertilize with mythology; the archetypes live inside us and are all around us, and this has been the case... forever.
I must say, it is gratifying to receive these updates from you. You really are doing the work, my friend, and should be congratulated for having chosen the Narrow Way.
Much love,
Michael
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