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Post by jhananda on Oct 8, 2010 16:10:29 GMT -5
Hello Don, and thank-you for posting your recovery issues here. I am glad to read that you have gained access to the ecstasies (jhana) through my guidance. But, I am sorry to read that you continue to have some addiction issues. However, I am not surprised, because my experience, and my case histories, have revealed that the purification process that is associated with consistent access to the ecstasies takes years.
The expectation within a Buddhist context is once one enters the first jhana the first time one will be completely healed of all neuroses (dhukkha). Well, as you have experienced that is fiction. However, we have found as one goes deeper into jhana consistently every day, then one is slowly cleansed of neuroses (dhukkha).
Nonetheless, those who have gone through this cleansing process know that liberation and purification takes years. One thus must have some faith in the Noble Eightfold Path, and keep meditating every day to get to the ecstasies every day. In the process one is cleansed little by little, as the proverbial layers of the “onion” are stripped away.
When it comes to addictive behavior one must realize that the addictions are based upon normal and natural human behavior. When normal, or natural, human behavior becomes an addiction it is when we become obsessive and compulsive about natural behavior.
For instance, all cultures have developed fermentation processes and fermented foods. Also, evidence of fermentation practices exists in the archaeological record going back to the earliest humans, and proto-humans. If this is true, then we have to consider that consuming fermented foods is normal, and natural, human behavior. In fact consuming fermented foods in moderation is good for us because they complete proteins, and convert simple sugars to proteins, and provide needed friendly flora. Thus, consuming fermented foods is normal, and natural, human behavior, and only becomes unhealthy when one becomes obsessive and compulsive about consuming fermented foods, then we call it alcoholism.
In the case of sexual desire, everyone must pass through this gate as one traverses the ecstasies, because reproductive behavior is normal, and natural, human behavior. We must just learn to overcome our obsessive and compulsive behavior around normal, and natural reproductive behavior. Sometimes getting married is a good solution to overcoming obsessive sexual behavior. Otherwise, you will find when you become established in the 4th jhana attainment on a daily basis, then all of your obsessions will be gone, and you will find you will also be free of anxiety, and so forth.
I am sorry to read about the rift in your family over your past obsessive behavior. People who once manifested obsessive and compulsive behavior, but were healed through a successful recover program, will often find their family of origin will notice the deep change and accept one back into the family circle. On the other hand, often our obsessive and compulsive behavior has its origins with our family of origin. In some cases the family is so unhealthy that it is unwise to attempt to heal the rift, because doing so might just suck one back into addictive behavior. Thus one must develop discrimination in one’s recovery.
You mentioned “chronic horrible muscle pain.” Chronic muscle cramps can have several causes. I used to have chronic muscle cramps. It took me years to get to the bottom of my chronic muscle cramps. It turned out I was deficient on electrolytes. All I had to do was add salt to my diet, so I now liberally salt my foods, doing so has kept the muscle cramps away. When they come back, I just increase my salt intake.
Love to all, Jhananda
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Post by don on Oct 8, 2010 18:31:56 GMT -5
Thank you Jeffrey, that is most helpful to hear your advice and support. I want to delete all of my porn collection, this seems a tie to the past and trying to live in the pleasure of past memories, using that as a part of the pleasure addiction to turn away from the extreme body pain that i have to deal with. Salt intake has been suggested before to me and hasn't helped. Amytriptaline helped regulate my sleep somewhat, certainly curbed compulsive behavior but also seemed to dull my ecstatic experience during meditation. That energy is often so strong that it keeps me up and activates my mind into overdrive. A peaceful energy but one that my body is not use to. My muscles are like steel. I have massage 1-2 times/week. That helps.
Your family advice is good, my family are not idiots, but yes highly dysfunctional, but supportive in a shallow way. My mother is a compulsive addictive to the family, using us to meet emotial needs that she didn't receive from her own parents. I find when I open to her and share my problems, while she wants to help, none the less seems to see every solution to my problems as just needing 'more' of her compulsive love (addiction). Which is frustrating because she will never acknowledge that I have needs that have nothing to do with her and that she really seems to have no understanding of.
I find it hard to say "i love you' to people in my family because i just dont feel it. My mother was always overbearingly 'loving' and pried into my private life in inappropriate ways. I told her this and and she has backed off in silence. Typical. As soon as I have an issue or problem that needs to be addressed she just 'disappears'. Is not longer emotionally present. But so long as she feels in power and the most 'loving' of everyone then she feels empowered and helpful.
Thanks again Jeffrey, hopefully this rambling will be of some benefit to others with family and past, memories, trauma, issues.
Don
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Post by jhananda on Oct 9, 2010 18:28:48 GMT -5
Hello Don, it is too bad that psychiatry is more about prescribing drugs than it is about guiding people through their neuroses. I have found many of the psychiatric drugs do indeed reduce the ecstasy, as you also found.
My recommendation is for people to do their best at avoiding psychiatric drugs and leading a rigorous self-aware contemplative life, which leads to the ecstasies. By doing so one has a better chance of traversing one's neuroses and coming out the other end a spiritual master. However, the path of the mystic take tremendous resolve. Along the way, do learn wholesome behavior as well as moderation, because one does no become a saint over night.
When one cannot sleep at night because the kundalini energy keeps one awake, then it is a good time to meditate. If sleep just does not come, even after hours of meditation, then try going for a walk or run at night.
Massage is excellent for the body, especially for muscle aches. Back when I made more money I used to receive a massage once a week, as well as an acupuncture treatment. I used to also start every day with hatha yoga, and early in my contemplative life, when I had a great deal of aches, I practiced hatha yoga almost all day long for several years. So, if you have not tried hatha yoga, then do learn and cultivate its practice.
Love to all, Jhananda
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Post by don on Oct 14, 2010 16:45:45 GMT -5
Thanks Jeffrey. Yes I practice yoga, hatha and yin yoga. It helps somewhat. But the deep pain is chronic and never goes away. Is it about my past and addictions? Massage every week for the last 10 years, and meditation, yoga. I've been told it could be fibromyalgia, but i dont know. Am i identified with it and if i just stop being attached to my pain will it go away? Tolle says the "moment you bring it into awateness, it loses its power". Well not in my case!
Best, Don
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Post by jhananda on Oct 15, 2010 15:31:13 GMT -5
Hello Don, there are many sources of pain, and to believe that all pain will just go away when one attains the ecstasies, or that all pain is due to anxiety, is all too naive to me. I have chronic arthritic pain, which for me is exacerbated by anxiety, and is absent when I am in the 4th jhana and beyond. Nonetheless, when I return to normal awareness levels the pain is almost ever present, so I now take pain meds for the illness.
So, only you can be the judge of the source of your pain. Perhaps it is anxiety produced, or just exacerbated by anxiety. In any case, reducing anxiety in your life is likely to reduce the suffering component in your pain. If you are already well established in the 4th jhana, and you still have chronic pain, then medication is likely to be your only other recourse.
Also, leading a healthy lifestyle can reduce pain. A healthy lifestyle is relative, and varies from individual to individual, but it is nonetheless a worthy journey to follow.
Love to all, Jhananda
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Post by don on Oct 16, 2010 17:16:01 GMT -5
Thanks Jeffrey, yes perhaps I am beling naive that Jhana will take my pain away, or that the pain is due to my past and not being able to 'let it go'. Medication only offers temporary relief. Since i stopped the triptaline a few weeks ago i notice compulsive feelings creeping back in, its like my energy/anxiety goes up at night, and i start going to bed later and later, i can't fix a routine. So the triptaline helped in that way, also curved sexual impulses, but make feel a bit dull. I have a whole host of medications, just xanax, neurotine wich i take to settle my nerves off and on, paracetammine every night, but i exercise, do yoga and meditate too.
One thing I found, when i was having acuppuncture for a while with a lady that gave 3 hour seesions, During that time i mediated with the pins around my 3rd eye region, after 2 hours, my body sort of felt like it 'melted', turned 'watery', 'let go' of tension, and I always left those sessions with an intense 3rd eye energy and feeling totally ecstatic. But again the pain didn't go away and it was just another temporary relief thing. I find it hard to meditate for 2-3 hours straight, but i thought it has to have been one of the most successful treatments that really worked. Always after about 2 hours the body just 'let go', like I was released from a tractor beam of energy holding my body in tension.
What do you think about that Jeffrey?
Best, Don
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Post by jhananda on Oct 16, 2010 18:09:25 GMT -5
Hello Don, if after 2 hours of meditation or acupuncture your body just 'lets go', like you were released from a tractor beam of energy holding your body in tension, then it suggests that cultivating a daily meditation practice that consistently produces the ecstasies (jhana) may indeed relieve at least some of your chronic pain. So, you are having difficulty sleeping at night, then perhaps mediating that that time will help you.
Best regards, Jhananda
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Post by don on Oct 22, 2010 11:23:50 GMT -5
Thankyou Jeffrey, I know it sounds perfectly logical, and while I do meditate everyday, 1-2 hours, and do yoga, take various medications and have reduced quite a number of stressful factors from my life, it is like the pain body has a mind of its own, I never know when it will 'attack'. It seems like some kind of saboteur, sabotaging my every attempt to get rid of it. I have found Tolle's books helpful in that regard, as a way to understand the pain body, and your work for actually doing something about it that helps. And while i would prefer to deny that i have anything 'wrong' with me, like arthritis or fibromyalgia, and I have had every test run and there is nothing that is apparently physically wrong with my health, you may be right that there is some underlying condition that is out of my control, and only really manageable through all the sorts of things that i am already doing. I have to be careful about meditating at night, while it is always relaxing, when i relax like that the energy often keeps me awake! The chronic pain has been around for about 18 years, it has moved around, used to be really bad in my neck, now its bad in my legs, but generally it seems bad everywhere.
best, Don
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Post by jhananda on Oct 22, 2010 12:20:15 GMT -5
It sounds, Don, like you are doing a very good job of managing your chronic pain with a fairly healthy regimen. However, I have found no matter how much, or deeply, one meditates chronic pain is not going to go away, other than when I am out-of-body in the immaterial domains. Since you meditate deeply, and you find when you meditate at night that you gain too much energy to sleep, then it sounds like you are ripe for developing the OOBE and exploring the immaterial domains. On this subject you may find reading the following essays of use to you: The Proto-Contemplative Life, Lucid Dreams and Out-of-Body Travel (August 1, 2004) www.greatwesternvehicle.org/protocontemplative.htm Rapture in Buddhism, Manomaya, the "mind-made body." The Buddha’s Discourses on the Astral Body and Out-of-Body (OOB) experiences (updated November 09, 2004) www.greatwesternvehicle.org/manomaya.htm Remaining Conscious During the Sleep Cycle www.greatwesternvehicle.org/concentration.htm The Non-material Domains and the Milky Way www.greatwesternvehicle.org/non-materialdomains.htmLove to all, Jhananda
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Post by Don on Nov 28, 2010 16:35:48 GMT -5
Hi Jeffrey,
I've been doing alot to turn around my life in the past few months, trying to make long term plans that are going to have sustainable impact on how I can best deliver my talents in a fruitful way. Alot to relay here, but to cut things short, instead of trying to find out what i need to do to go deeper into my meditative pratice, I want to instead say, hey, wait a minute, I've had a full kundalini awakening at 25, and spent the last 13 years seeking and developing a rigorous practice (only really rigorous since finding the GWV 3 years ago), so why don't I start a meditation group or take a stab at starting a web presence on the net that cultivates ecstatic meditation. I want to include the arts, music in particular, experimental art practices which in essence are all about precipitating altered states of consciousness in the listener. My other big project is getting music completed with scores and applying to study abroad for 2 years for an MA. Now that is something that I almost dont want to do, but I see it as a stepping stone out of my current rut and a way to jump start myself back into a musical environment of composition and performance. I suppose my question is, what is motivating me here? I feel that my life here is going no where, nothing is happening, yes I have lots of time, and a fairly stress free lifestyle, but I see that I need to make some changes that are going to add to my profile as a a composer which will help enable future commission, a livelihood, grants, a better teaching position, and all that. Oddly, I had a knock on my door the other day from a neighbor who heard me listening to music, and said he was also a musician, wanted to exchange music, a mediator, had been ordained as a monk in Thai for 2 weeks, meditated 10 minutes/day, was a hippy in the 60's, 54 years old...and oddly I sort of saw myself as him if I just continued on the way I am going, drifting and not taking any decisive action to make changes. Still not sure where to go and study, I'm sure I can secure the funding, but where to go? Also, in terms of building and developing a 'web presence' what is your advice there? My main interests are in ecstatic altered states of consciousness as they relate to meditation and the arts. What is your own strategy and advice in starting and building a service of some sort?
best don
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Post by jhananda on Nov 29, 2010 14:13:15 GMT -5
It sounds to me, Don, that you are formulating an excellent strategy for yourself. If you look at my career as a rigorous contemplative and mystic we can see that nearly 40 years of this lifestyle and a few dollars will get me a cup of coffee. So, I too am looking into ways to build a career in Anthropology that might turn into a livelihood that will support my contemplative life.
Also, I would recommend that, since you are interested in creating for yourself a presence on the web, then since you are a mystic, like Michael and I, then why not join us and utilize our resources to express yourself? I would certainly value your contribution to my forums, and FaceBook. Also, since you are into music, then maybe a YouTube channel can serve you, and please do invite me to be a subscriber to your channel and your FaceBook page.
Also, the GWV offers a teacher training program, which Michael here has negotiated. So, why not work your way through that program to become a certified meditation teacher under the GWV? After all, why reinvent the wheel? Let us instead jump on aboard the same vehicle and row together.
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Post by don on Nov 30, 2010 15:10:03 GMT -5
Jeffrey, thank you for that advice, I would most certainly be interested in the teacher training via the GWV, my weak point is scripture, I never really have a clear over view of how all the literature fits together, what is relevant, crucial and not so important. I believe I have seen some pages on the GWV site of older retreats, what would the training encompass? best don
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Post by jhananda on Dec 1, 2010 14:36:18 GMT -5
I have attached some links below that will give anyone interested in the GWV meditation teacher program. Basically, the program consists of a year-long mentorship program, which includes: journaling, readings and some short papers that demonstrate that the student read the material and understood it. The reading includes all of the scriptural study we believe is essential for anyone who wishes to teach meditation. The biggest obstacle for most people in the program is attending the 10 meditation retreat, which is intended to be the culmination of the program, and allows the student and teacher to meet in person, and for them to meditate together rigorously. GWV Teacher and Counselor Training Programs www.greatwesternvehicle.org/teachertraining.htmTeacher Certification and Ordination in the Great Western Vehicle www.greatwesternvehicle.org/ordination.htmTeacher Certification Requirements www.greatwesternvehicle.org/teachercertification.htmLove to all, Jhananda
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Post by don on Dec 6, 2010 17:50:30 GMT -5
Thanks Jeffrey, that answered alot of questions I had about defining what it means to be a contemplative. What tradition or how would you call this type of contemplative, an 'ecstatic' contemplative?
As an artist, I have trouble mixing the two in defining who I am, or what I do rather. I think its perhaps best to separate the two, I have to say that artists who talk about their work or define themselves as a mystic who is an artist, always sounds flaky, and usually is. "I'm an artist and a contemplative". Its almost like saying the same thing twice anyways! Or should be, you know, as I have been getting back into contact with alot of old artists that I still know, and still know me, and still have regard for me as an artist, I keep encountering the ugly face of ego, and in some cases what I would call ego-maniacs. I guess you have to have some ego to simply interact with people and show a certain disposition, but what I see is usually ego in the form of 'exclusion'. Posing in such a way that denigrates certain behavior or attitudes, like saying 'us and you'. You are one of 'us' or you are nobody. Its very hard to function in the art world, unfortunately many of the most interesting and talented artists fall into the ego-maniac category.
I see art in the same way you have described ritualized religious behavior Jeffrey, as iconography the intention of which is to lead one to a contemplative state, at which point, while the art may continue to bring about such states, and deeply altered states of consciousness, we go beyond the icon, and it no longer functions in the way it once did. I think most people will agree that when they walk into a church, they enter a contemplative state, or the preparation for that state. For those that can already go deep, it simply allows a space in which to go even deeper. Maybe that is the same way with art, it never really loses its potential for precipitating contemplative states, but we will find that certain art will take us deeper, and further in our contemplative states than others.
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Post by don on Dec 6, 2010 19:45:01 GMT -5
just one note: on editions of The dark night and st Teresa, do you still recommend those particular translations that you list in the contemplative guide? Is it really important which edition we get? Can you sum up the importance of reading these particular texts for us Jeffrey.
Also I have noticed how many people take to be their 'dark night of the soul' what I, personally, see as just a day in the life, this would seem to be a difficult experience to describe. Basically from what i understand it happens between 2nd and 3rd and CAN be a nightmare, whereas for others there is no dark night at all. However, your recent video on the existential crisis seems to be a whole other matter, and was interesting to hear, because it really is true, those who are leading contemplative lives seem always to have had a crisis of some kind. I see it over and over, if they are down and out, outsiders, trying to meditate and escape from a paste they would prefer not to have, then there is always that 'crisis' there to be told. I too am the same, i have huge crisis that led to where i am now, but i feel less and less inclined to care about that anymore, i just see it, and say yeah, that was that.
My big issue at the moment is going back to school at 38, I have an MA, but want to do another specifically in music, but i dont want to be a student again, in the ego wheel of churning out assignments by due dates, and not really believing in the the piece of paper i'm paying alot to get at the end of it all. But i can get grants to pay for it, and it would probably be better than just carrying on as I am, I see it as an investment in my future, it will lead to many more opportunities in the field I wish to be involved in. A hard spot.
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