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Post by bertvdb on Oct 17, 2009 21:54:22 GMT -5
The mind is capable of many things at once.
It can easily cloak itself during meditation.
Then, who is the (n)one observing the self/mind?
Is it not the mind itself?
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Post by jhananda on Oct 20, 2009 9:53:59 GMT -5
Hello bertvdb, I believe the point in the practice of meditation is it is to lead somewhere, and that somewhere is ecstatic altered states of consciousness, the second of which is the stilling of the mind. Once we are skilled at the stilling of mind, then we find charismatic phenomena arising, which becomes more and more lucid as we go deeper into absorption. Nonetheless, consciousness is always present, but do we ask, "Who is cloak itself during meditation?" No, we do not, because as we traverse these ecstatic altered states of consciousness, the more we strip away the layers of the self until there is only awareness.
Best regards< Jhananda
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Post by Michael Hawkins on Oct 20, 2009 23:53:12 GMT -5
That's how I conceive of absorption, Jeffrey and Bert: the more frequently and deeply we enter into it, the more we avail ourselves of the cleansing and purifying properties it holds. Gradually, it strips everything away until all that's left is... ? Can't really spell that part out, so we have to live it....
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Post by bertvdb on Oct 22, 2009 5:36:52 GMT -5
Hi Jeffrey, Hi Michael, thank you for the insight. It makes me think a lot. I don't seem to get meditation straight these days (and most probably before also) It appears i'm stuck. Is my mind playing games? ....
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Post by jhananda on Oct 22, 2009 10:02:07 GMT -5
Hello bertvdb, as long as the mind is active, it is likely to be playing games, because that is what it does.
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Post by gandarloda on Nov 19, 2009 13:50:30 GMT -5
Hi all,
One should train the mind to be focus , until such a time that it is awareness in itself. Of course, it's easier said then done but what have we got to lose? Dive in, into the bliss.... ;D
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Post by LSD on Dec 2, 2009 7:25:43 GMT -5
What state of absorption does 'LSD' create? Does the insight one has from 'acid' experiences resemble those of Jhana?
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Post by jhananda on Dec 2, 2009 11:34:21 GMT -5
Hello LSD, LSD itself does not produce a specific level of absorption. It is just a vehicle to absorption. The depth is dependent upon the skill of the person taking the drug.
Those who are skilled at the practice of meditation that leads to absorption generally find little use for drugs, because they learn to access deep levels of absorption without drugs. Once one has access to deep levels of absorption through meditation, one will lose interest in drugs as a vehicle to absorption, because the drug high is just not as good, or purely blissful, as the ecstasies one can have through meditation.
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Post by Michael Hawkins on Dec 2, 2009 12:36:15 GMT -5
Hello LSD and Jeffrey,
I can validate what Jeffrey says from personal experience.
I had had (some 20 to 30 years ago) a couple of LSD experiences that I would classify as "religious" in nature. While it is hard to describe to the "un-initiated" exactly what it's like, I can say that my bliss body was blasted full of kundalini (which I had never experienced before, and which would not naturally arise until several more years would pass), and that the experience was like a six-to-eight hour sustained immersion in full kundalini mode.
For the past five years, however, I've been able to access fourth jhana on a regular basis (i.e., whenever I give myself enough time in meditation to "ramp up" to it) -- and in the range between late third jhana through fourth jhana, the same kundalini intensity tends to be present, without my typical LSD experience of fracturing in the mind/emotion bodies. In late fourth jhana, there is barely any body consciousness, as awareness is merged with all that is.
Having become absorbed in jhana 24/7, there truly is no desire for drugs of any sort -- although I am not averse to a beer or glass of wine here and there. There is simply nothing out there (in my experience) that can compare to samadhi absorption.
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